this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2024

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Unpopular Opinion

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Any major outside of STEM, Law, or Med is not worth going to a university for. (discuss.online)

submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

40 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Take it from a criminal justice major who ended up going into student loan debt because I felt like I just downright “needed” to get it from a university. NOTE, I’m not saying don’t go to college, I’m saying unless you are majoring in one of the fields I named, you’d be better off enrolling at a JUCO or Community College. Now if you have a scholarship then that’s a different story. I was originally in a community college but ended up transferring because that school only offered associate degrees (my other excuse for leaving lol). College as a whole is way too fucking expensive to begin with but I feel as though it would be more worth it if you were in the majors I mentioned. I do realize that there are many graduates who have majored in other fields and feel content and that’s great.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I went to school for clowning.

I graduated and toured a clown show.

I've won a bunch of awards and had a career in clowning.

I also learned a bunch of transferable skills and took a day job in marketing after successfully marketing a bunch of tours. Now I earn good money, am on the path to directorship and am well respected in the artistic and business communities.

Maybe one person's experience is not universal and there is no right or wrong answer about how to approach education, training or certification.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I've won a bunch of awards and had a career in clowning.

I also learned a bunch of transferable skills

Did you become a Reddit moderator?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

I wasn't pathetic enough

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago

Fairly common opinion. It is worth noting that it's actually a way worse world to live in if the only people who should get to go to college are the people who expect to earn a lot of money. This is coming from someone who went to an expensive culinary school which is objectively a trash investment. Now I'm getting a scholarship for tech, but all I see is that people in this program are even less deserving

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 weeks ago

Upvoted for actually being unpopular

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago

I would argue that there is intrinsic value in education and that you can't measure it purely in terms of dollars in vs dollars out. Perhaps that means that education in a country where it is very expensive is a luxury. But I would also say that if you go to a four year college and feel like you got nothing out of it than a piece of paper, that's on you.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I've heard Philosophy is a great pre-Law major.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Soft sciences in general need to be covered more in the fields OP mentioned! Psych and philosophy should be taught in high school, too. The amount of arrogant asshole STEM majors I've met that think experts in sociology and psychology are just making shit up is too damn high. Ironically I did a deep dive on delusions recently and it's wild realizing that's what some of these folks are suffering from.

To be clear - delusions are not a character flaw. We all probably have had a few in our lifetime. The fucks I'm thinking of just push their delusions onto others and become emotionally abusive by weaponizing the term against people for shit like preferring neutral pronouns. They don't bother to ask why someone (like me) might have the preference.

/tangent

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

To be fair to the soc/psych skeptics, there has been quite a number of scandals where famous TED talk researchers had their big theories discredited due to failure to replicate. “Power posing” was the big meme one but there are many others including ego depletion, social priming, and the facial feedback hypothesis.

The replication crisis is extremely embarrassing for the field.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The replication is actually evidence to me of moral reasoning. There are limits to the types of experiments we can or should be willing to perform. Power posing was never considered an entire scientific model like the sex/gender distinction.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You mean the lack of replication? Yes, it’s evidence that humans are sophisticated reasoners and that simplistic “life hacks” like smiling at yourself in a mirror are not effective. But then these are among the most widely known “findings” of psychology, so the field’s reputation suffers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Where are you getting the idea that's one of the most widely known findings? I'm genuinely asking, I hadn't heard about it in years.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

These are all the findings that make the TED talk circuits.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And you use Ted talks to see what's most popular??

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

We’re talking about widely known psychology results. TED talks, articles in the New York Times, interviews on daytime TV. We’re not talking about whose textbook is most well known in psychology departments.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Ok. I guess you think I'm being an elitist, so I just asked an LLM "What are the most popular concepts in psychology understood by the overall population, and what metrics do you use to determine that?" Chopping down the responses, I got: Cognitive Dissonance, Confirmation Bias, Personality Types (like Myers Briggs), Freud's Psychoanalysis, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, Behaviorism, IQ and Intelligence Testing, Positive Reinforcement, Depression and Anxiety, and Mindfulness and Meditation.

That's based on search engines trends, social media mentions, media representation, surveys and polls, academic citations and book sales.

A few of those are outdated concepts, but it takes time for the general public to catch up. So, I'm not sure this supports how people in general might be skeptical of the field. It's healthy to have some skepticism, but I was referring to people that will take one example and act like it discredits the whole field. That is some poor critical thinking that I doubt many actually believe. The same people I've argued with on sex/gender will also gladly talk about the benefits of some of the stuff the LLM brought up, too. There's just a lot of societal indoctrination and sexist reasoning to try to discredit that specific theory.

Sorry I'm going a bit into AuDHD mode here. I like talking about this stuff but if it's too much I'll stop

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

Even some of the stuff you mentioned, such as MBTI (personality “types”), Freud’s theories, Maslow’s hierarchy, and behaviourism are discredited. My point about the TED talk pop psych stuff being discredited though was not to say the general public has rejected these theories. They haven’t. It’s that science has moved on but the public lags behind.

Notice that I never said (throughout this discussion) that the general public is skeptical of psychology. The general public tends to lack the tools of critical thinking needed for healthy skepticism in general (not just in regards to psychology). Saying something is discredited is only saying that science has moved on, not the general public (which even continues to believe in silly things like astrology that have been discredited for centuries).

However, that is not to say the public is totally clueless. While they lack proper critical thinking skills, they do have the ability to become aware of when scientists’ reputations are damaged. This is a far more diffuse effect because the public isn’t generally aware of the differences between individual scientists and their debates within a field. And that’s where the really big problem exists:

An individual scientist can become popular communicating their theory to the public. But when their theory is later discredited the reputational damage can affect the field or even all of science as a whole. Over time this can lead to popular anti-intellectualism, such as we see with climate change denial.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

It unironically is. It teaches you argumentation, symbolic logic, critical thinking, drafting bullshit long form essays, arguing about the precision or imprecision of language, disagreeing about what words mean (postmodernism), disagreeing about disagreeing, and so forth.

Philosophy is a great foundation for almost any field but if applied to Pre-Law, it gives you a leg up.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The education is only a small part of the benefit. While you’re there probably the most important thing you can do is network. Make friends, make acquaintances. Let them know what you’re studying and what you want to do. Sooner or later someone will be hiring and hopefully through their connections they can get to you, and now you’ve got a cushy well paying job.

You don’t need college to meet new people. But condensing a large group of people who want to do something with their lives is a great place to be.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

I graduated from an elite university in my country within the STEM field, being the second best in the year or so. I can't find a job because I never networked or did internships. I studied for the exams (which was easy) and otherwise got drunk with students and people from absolutely not my field. It feels like I wasted 6 years of my life.

People, for real, network. No one cares for your grades once you look for a job. They care whether you have experience, and you get both experience and the chance to talk about it when you network.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

Agree except that uni is for networking. If you go to uni and don’t network and dont get a degree you listed then you could have accomplished the same without going to a uni.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

Should cross post this under "boring dystopia".

A better take in my opinion is university and college should be for the pursuit of knowledge and anything you're doing to make money should be a trade school.

There is good reason for people should study all sorts of fields in university, it's just been corrupted by capitalism/greed.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

It's a catch-22.

Go and get debt for a degree you'll never actually use or don't and people who did get jobs that don't need a diploma over you because they have it.

The solution was expanding public education again. Used to be normal to stop going around sixth grade because you could get a career with just that, only white collar required a HS diploma. Then everything required HS and white collar needed Bachelor's degree.

Some places do t require a degree, but still use it as deciding factor.

We need to just do at least 2 years of community along with Highschool, if not full on bachelor's. Lots of other countries do it, hell, the school I went to in Hawaii was full of Nordic students because part of their free college included a semester abroad to learn about other cultures.

Really made sociology awkward tho when we kept talking about how shit America was and all our problems when the majority of the class came from countries who sorted it out long ago.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

(in the US)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

I withdrew from college and was able to enter the workforce directly, but a few years later I've decided to go back and knock out the rest of my 4 year degree.

I'll probably end up with ~20k+ in debt by the time I'm out, but I'll be re-entering the workforce with a degree AND nearly a decade of relevant career experience, which I'm hoping will help considerably.

Worst case scenario I figure it will make it easier for me to move somewhere abroad, should the US continue to decline the way it has been.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Don't go to school for STEM either. Same reasons.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

STEM degrees might be the most devalued now anyway. Most STEM employers (STEMployers?) are flooded with applications from kids who got a 4 year degree with no other relevant experience. At least non-STEM education focuses more on soft skills

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Not sure which part of STEM you're talking about. Me and all my classmates who graduated with various engineering degrees (civil, mechanical, petroleum, and aerospace) are having to practically beat recruiters away with a stick.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Most people equate stem with comp sci and forget that’s just the newest addition to the group although arguably the lowest barrier to entry with some of the highest top ends.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Thing is, you learn a hell of a lot more than just science in those majors. Shit, i have a degree in biochem and i make a good salary in money and people management. And I definitely rely on the analytical/math/programming capabilities I developed in science.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I'm saying this as a STEM major who can't find work, and most of my colleagues in my major (electrical engineering) can't find work either. I guess it was a good idea whenever you went to school, but that ship has sailed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Interesting. I think I would agree with you that going straight to a university is more expensive, than doing a CC first. It may add additional time to your schooling, but I think its worth it, depending on the costs for the university. I think I would still say even if going through the majors you mentioned, a CC is a better way to go as well unless you have a lot of money, whether from family, or grants, or scholarships.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

I’d add economics with a heavy dose of math (econometrics) to your list of useful majors. Ditto accounting.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

PPE was worth it. 10/10. Would go into debt again.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

Personal protective equipment?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

ITT:

An actual clown.
"Yeah, common opinion"
"Actually an unpopular opinion"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Shit, I thought you were joking/talking about some asshat troll with the clown thing. lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

I agree with you to a certain point.

When somebody finishes high-school and becomes an adult, they should develop a useful skill that they can turn into a career. This might be going to college for STEM, it might be a trade-school, or it might be an apprenticeship as a skilled tradesman. I wouldn't discount all liberal arts degrees either; a degree in graphic design can be well worth the time.

The important thing is that people entering the workforce can say "I'm a doctor," "I'm a plumber," "I'm an auto mechanic," "I'm a software developer," etc. Be able to say "I do something."

Going to college for an undergraduate degree in art history? That's something you should do after you're already established in your career and you feel like you'd like to learn something more. Going to school to learn to be a chef, paint cars, build furniture, etc, they might not be STEM or law degrees, but they're useful.

I guess in summary, kids should go to school to learn a useful skill. Adults should go to school for whatever they want.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Business Degree?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Lemmy users are almost 90% STEM people and the fact that accountings, taxation, production management...etc is an actual field of study might be surprising.