Collapse

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This is the place for discussing the potential collapse of modern civilization and the environment.

Collapse, in this context, refers to the significant loss of an established level or complexity towards a much simpler state. It can occur differently within many areas, orderly or chaotically, and be willing or unwilling. It does not necessarily imply human extinction or a singular, global event. Although, the longer the duration, the more it resembles a ‘decline’ instead of collapse.

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MM #18: What Can I Do? | Do the Math (dothemath.ucsd.edu)

submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Good stuff

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I'm not so sure because he says 8 billion people cannot live on the planet while it's the top 0.1% that does most of the environmental damage

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Can I interest you in https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9js5291m which illustrates in some detail why this is so.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

But he's right.

That the top 0.1% or 1% use so much is an issue related to morality and ethics not the environment.

If you took them out of the equation then all you do is kick the can down the road for a few more decades, now that has some appeal to those alive today for sure and should be the basis of policy (I'f wed vote that way) but that's separate issue to the carrying capacity of the biosphere.

I'd suggest a number closer to 100 million ? Maybe less ? Your refrigerator has way more enviomentlal impact then the average African, so giving then all a fridge and car and AC and access healthcare even at the minimum level of the working poor of the US would be beyond disastrous. Let alone another couple billion in Asia, Sth America etc.

Ther are solutions , global cooperation, humans stop having kids tomorrow for a decade or two and harsh restrictions on energy use but do you think most of the people causing the problem will do that ? What of Russia, Israel will they ? or the US Defence force being disbanded etc.

Don't misunderstand, the pooresr 50% should be bale to lift their living standards but in order to kick the can down the road we must reduce the consumption of the top 10%-20% significantly or that cliff is way closer. That's you and me, no cars, no flying, no dishwashers, no lawn mowers, no water craft, no cruise ships, no advertising and on and on.

Usual "solutions" proposed are dues ex machina. I.e.some future tech will save us, so we'll ignore the problem.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Here’s a video from the author of the book @eleitl sent. Short version: even if we got rid of wealth inequality today, we’re still in trouble.