Asklemmy

Growing up in a "non-denominational", independent fundamental Baptist house I was always taught that Catholics weren't Christians because they worship idols. Now that I've left the faith I would easily classify them as being Christian.

While I think many people actually do classify them as Christians they do have some significant differences in their beliefs and practices than most Protestant denominations; and being themselves the largest Christian denomination by far it can be useful in some analysis to treat them as a distinct entity (the answer to "percentage of global population that subscribe to a particular religion" is much more interesting when broken into "Christian Catholic: %" and "Christian Other: %").

Catholics see themselves as the root form of Christianity that other versions forked from. Whilst it's not technically true, as there are many versions of Christianity that pre-date Catholicism, in most countries where the term "Catholics and Christians" is used, it's accurate enough

They have the next outgroup to eliminate lined up in case they run out of minorities to discriminate against.

Catholics are Christians, but Christians are not necessarily Catholic. For example, Orthodox Christians are not Catholic. Being Catholic requires, at the bare minimum, agreement with the Holy See and implicitly the dogma he endorses. Even this "minor" difference can be used to find non-Catholic Christians.

Precisely, Catholic ⊊ Christian.

The reason why this is the case has to do with the history of Christianity, specifically the various schisms throughout the ages as the Christian faith evolved. That's an incredibly complicated topic which I'm not qualified to discuss.

Jesse, WTF are you talking about

I've never heard the phrase Catholic and Christians before. Catholic vs Protestant maybe.

Discrimination and division are like 99% of what religion is about.

I was raised evangelical protestant in the USA, at some point attending both Seventh-day Adventist and Pentacostal churches. My mother did not consider my Catholic grandparents to be Christians, based on her belief that one cannot be saved by confession/prayer to a saint or clergy instead of directly to Christ. As many other have said, this is not the mainstream definition.

I have never heard anyone say that. Presumably they say it because they don’t know any better.

There's plenty of great commentary here about why Christianity is divided up into different sects, but I think you're primarily interested in the narcissism of small differences. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences)

Basically, if you've read about Dr. Suess' Starbellied Sneeches, you get the idea. Human brains are exceptional pattern recognition machines, and when a society is so homogenously Christian then those small differences become the cleavages along which identities form. That leads to things like Catholic / Christian divisions and the formation of the best joke in The Guardian history:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religion

As an American who was raised Lutheran, who was taught a bunch of Romance-Euro-centric world history in school, I always considered Roman Catholic to be the "default" flavor of Christianity. Protestantism in all of its forms are hard forks. It's in the name, even--the Roman Catholic church is what Protestants are "protesting".

To unironically "-and Zoidberg" Catholicism out of Christianity while leaving Protestant flavors included feels completely backwards. I've never heard anyone do it.

But if I did, I could only assume it was due to some No True Scotsman bullshit. "Only we practice the correct way. Everyone else isn't just interpreting it differently, but interpreting it wrong." Sounds like an Evangelical line of thought to me.

Because some sects of Christianity (mostly Southern Baptist) are fucking insane and spiteful.

I can maybe understand it if they're talking about UUs. Speaking as one, we're not entirely sure what the hell we are either. We're in committee trying to figure that out. </self_deprecating_joke>

just about every christian I know sees other sects and offshoots as a separate religion. it's very sneech-like.

same shit different pile?

Catholics believe in a religious hierarchy, Cardinals, bishops, Pope e.t.c.

Christians USUALLY think hierarchy in religion is almost blasphemous. But really it's just so they can kinda just do whatever the fuck they want and not worry about the Pope excommunicating them.

Schism was the very first thing the Christian church learned to do.

because historically lumping protestants and catholics together has not ended well.

This might be a regional thing. At least in Germany, where the reformation took place, the term Christian include all groups, protestans, catholics, orthodox etc.

As a Protestant Christian, it doesn't make any sense. I think it is just idiotic evangelical puritans being idiotic evangelical puritans.

However it is worth mentioning Catholics and Orthodox people don't allow each other or Protestants to take communion. (Catholics might allow Orthodox but maybe orthodoxy forbids their own members, I don't know that one)

Catholics do a bunch of stuff other Christians think makes them not Christina.

The biggest one is the pope, catholic lore says the pope is the literal spokesperson for God on earth all other religions he doesn't have authority.

Idolatry: other Christian religions don't have a lot of images of saints or anybody other than christ and basically think catholics are wrong for worshipping Mary and saints on the same level as Jesus. Similarly it's the difference between catholic crucifixes (has the dead guy on them) vs regular crosses

Transubstantiation: according to catholic lore when the alter boy rings the bell that is LITERALLY the body and blood of christ you're eating. Pretty sure other religions think this is a step too far.

some sort of remnant of evangelical puritan protestant ideology?

Yes. It's weird.

as someone that grew up in the South and was surrounded by evangelicals, Catholics were seen as weird/possibly satanic, depending on the person, and not really Christians because of the saints and Mary worship. They're polytheistic since they don't just focus on Jesus Christ.

It’s because Protestantism is the dominant form of Christianity in cultures where this language convention exists, and it is a deliberate tactic to other Catholics by labeling them non-Christian. Especially in previous times, Catholics were subject to large amounts of discrimination and antagonism by Protestants, and we’re still dealing with the remnants of this ideology today. I think the only reason it has subsided is the rise of secularism and other more foreign religions that are seen as a greater threat by Christians, forcing them into an uneasy alliance with their former enemies. But remember that tons of Christians used to murder each other over which sect they belonged to.

Interestingly, in Central America, the opposite convention exists, where you are either “Cristiano”, meaning Catholic, or “Evangelico”, meaning Protestant (usually Pentecostal). This is because the dominant group is reversed in that society.

Personally, I view Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as three branches of one religion since they are clearly very similar. But that is the view of an outsider.

I've never heard someone say this.

Think of it as two different tribes

Catholic my nuts

Hundreds of years of infighting