this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2023

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‘I feel like a criminal for quitting’: nurses in the US fight ‘stay or pay’ agreements (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

18 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Filipino nurses for Ohio-based company say they have been forced to pay thousands in fees after signing training contracts

Filipino nurses are calling for the US’s top labor watchdog to review controversial “stay or pay” training repayment agreement provisions that have left them facing lawsuits and thousands of dollars in fees after they quit their jobs.

Training repayment agreement provisions (Trap) are contracts employers require workers to sign before beginning a job and stipulate that if a worker leaves the job before a specified time, they owe substantial fees.

Nurses who worked for the Ohio-based CommuniCare Family of Companies, one of the largest providers of post-acute care in the US, say they have been subjected to buyout fees of thousands of dollars when they resign and have been sued by their former employer.

Jeddalyn Ramos, a 30-year-old from the Philippines worked for four months at a CommuniCare-owned short-term and senior rehab facility in Pittsburgh in 2022 and paid $15,555.45 in fees when she quit her job.

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[–] [email protected] 59 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Training Repayment Agreement Provisions - TRAP

Yeah, that's not sus at all

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

That is so fucking on the nose, what the fuck.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

ANY job that requires payment for training, application or supplies is a scam. Period.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah that should definitely be illegal.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Suing her for $100,000 AFTER she paid $15,000 is the eyebrow raising part. Did they put her through college? Did she get a Batchelors degree? What kind of training is worth $115000 for an aged care nurse?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

If you view her as ‘their’ employee, and not a human being with free will who owns the right to their own labor, then it makes perfect sense. She “owes the company” not just for the cost of her training, but also the company’s lost productivity’ when she left and they had to replace her… it’s modern day slavery.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Probably a lot more than you think if I had to guess.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You got downvoted, but you probably are right. I'm sure it's more than any of us assume.

However, that's the cost of doing business. They should instead focus on increasing pay and employee satisfaction to retain their employee investments and increase the value of their training costs.

When the only thing keeping people working for you is fear of an impending bill, they're gonna leave the moment that's not over their heads.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

According to this article its about $3k for 4 years, call it another thousand for visa fees, hell tack on plane tickets and fees to move, you are still no where near the 100k, you may just scrape the 15k tho.

The quote from the company is really interesting

A spokesperson for CommuniCare said in an email: “Our company has spent over $15m in expenses to bring the nurses to the United States. Many of the nurses bring valuable skills with them to the position and we are investing in the nurses through education and training, so they are valuable contributors to the quality of care that CommuniCare is committed to consistent with our core values. Although many have good intentions, unfortunately some of the nurses have taken advantage of the system to enter the country. After receiving bonuses from other healthcare facilities, they leave without the willingness to provide reimbursement for the expenses that the company paid to bring them to the United States. Our company honored the commitment. They however were under contract and broke it.”

I cant help but think, why not invest in US nurses? Do they want a population they can pressure and exploit? Nah, that cant be it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Job experience is worth a lot.

Not saying what the employer did is correct, fuck abusive companies that treat their employees like cattle, but I can easily see a new nurse getting that kind of value out of their first job.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Value? As in wages? How is that training? The question is how much the company sunk in to training these nurses. I am legitimately confused about the point you are trying to make.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago

We need to get rid of the corrupt healthcare industry, it's embarrassing

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

You'd think with how hard the healthcare industry squeezes labor and cuts corners that it would be low cost. Gee, I wonder where all that money is going...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

Its fine, us Americans don't need a healthcare system that anyone can afford, in terms of monetary cost as well as in time terms of huge wait lines for every conceivable kind of basic checkup all the way to critical surgery.

See we have overall great health, can easily afford healthy food, have time to cook said healthy food, we do not have any addiction problems at a large scale, and you hardly ever hear about anyone getting shot, what with guns requiring extensive safety and familiarization courses before you can obtain one.

I look forward to growing old in safety and security as it definitely is not the case that roughly half the country wants to elect a self avowed wannabe dictator who has publicly stated that he is very interested in getting rid of vermin-people and keeping the blood of the nation clean.

(/s if thats somehow necessary)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I've never heard of one of these agreements that demanded a reasonable amount for leaving early. They always way overvalue the training or other services like immigration they provide. In my group where I work, brand new people aren't really useful during their first year due to the amount of training and specific domain knowledge they need to acquire. If we don't require this sort of contact, I am doubtful anyone does. Just provide a decent place to work. People will stay.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Just provide a decent place to work. People will stay.

Exactly. Any employer that intends to provide a fair wage for fair labor doesn't have this kind of bullshit contract. A TRAP clause is simply internentional premeditated abuse, and it should be prosecuted as such in the courts.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I mean if the number sounded like COST price it would sound a lot less predatory. If the financing agreement was separate to the employment (I.e yes, you can leave but you will still owe us the cost of the above on a reasonable payment schedule)

Reading thia article sounds a lot like indentured servitude.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

American hospitals have been treating visa workers like indentured servants for ages now. I for one am glad that some of these folks are fighting back. The healthcare system needs to quit burning-and-turning all of their staff the way they do before the whole system permanently collapses. I hope they find it harder to pull the wool over the eyes of foreign workers in the future.