this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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She's almost 70, spend all day watching q-anon style of videos (but in Spanish) and every day she's anguished about something new, last week was asking us to start digging a nuclear shelter because Russia was dropped a nuclear bomb over Ukraine. Before that she was begging us to install reinforced doors because the indigenous population were about to invade the cities and kill everyone with poisonous arrows. I have access to her YouTube account and I'm trying to unsubscribe and report the videos, but the reccomended videos keep feeding her more crazy shit.

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Log in as her on your device. Delete the history, turn off ad personalisation, unsubscribe and block dodgy stuff, like and subscribe healthier things, and this is the important part: keep coming back regularly to tell YouTube you don't like any suggested videos that are down the qanon path/remove dodgy watched videos from her history.

Also, subscribe and interact with things she'll like - cute pets, crafts, knitting, whatever she's likely to watch more of. You can't just block and report, you've gotta retrain the algorithm.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Yeah, when you go on the feed make sure to click on the 3 dots for every recommended video and "Don't show content like this" and also "Block channel" because chances are, if they uploaded one of these stupid videos, their whole channel is full of them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Would it help to start liking/subscribing to videos that specifically debunk those kinds of conspiracy videos? Or, at the very least, demonstrate rational concepts and critical thinking?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Probably not. This is an almost 70 year old who seems not to really think rationally in the first place. She's easily convinced by emotional misinformation.

Probably just best to occupy her with harmless entertainment.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

We recommend her a youtube channel about linguistics and she didn't like it because the Phd in linguistics was saying that is ok for language to change. Unfortunately, it comes a time when people just want to see what already confirms their worldview, and anything that challenges that is taken as an offense.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago

Oof that’s hard!

You may want to try the following though to clear the algorithm up

Clear her YouTube watch history: This will reset the algorithm, getting rid of a lot of the data it uses to make recommendations. You can do this by going to “History” on the left menu, then clicking on “Clear All Watch History”.

Clear her YouTube search history: This is also part of the data YouTube uses for recommendations. You can do this from the same “History” page, by clicking “Clear All Search History”.

Change her ‘Ad personalization’ settings: This is found in her Google account settings. Turning off ad personalization will limit how much YouTube’s algorithms can target her based on her data.

Introduce diverse content: Once the histories are cleared, start watching a variety of non-political, non-conspiracy content that she might enjoy, like cooking shows, travel vlogs, or nature documentaries. This will help teach the algorithm new patterns.

Dislike, not just ignore, unwanted videos: If a video that isn’t to her taste pops up, make sure to click ‘dislike’. This will tell the algorithm not to recommend similar content in the future.

Manually curate her subscriptions: Unsubscribe from the channels she’s not interested in, and find some new ones that she might like. This directly influences what content YouTube will recommend.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

youtube has a delete option that will wipe the recorded trend. then just watch a couple of videos and subscribe to some healthy stuff.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Very cool, had no idea it was that simple

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (16 children)

I'm a bit disturbed how people's beliefs are literally shaped by an algorithm. Now I'm scared to watch Youtube because I might be inadvertently watching propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

My personal opinion is that it's one of the first large cases of misalignment in ML models. I'm 90% certain that Google and other platforms have been for years already using ML models design for user history and data they have about him as an input, and what videos should they offer to him as an ouput, with the goal to maximize the time he spends watching videos (or on Facebook, etc).

And the models eventually found out that if you radicalize someone, isolate them into a conspiracy that will make him an outsider or a nutjob, and then provide a safe space and an echo-chamber on the platform, be it both facebook or youtube, the will eventually start spending most of the time there.

I think this subject was touched-upon in the Social Dillema movie, but given what is happening in the world and how it seems that the conspiracies and desinformations are getting more and more common and people more radicalized, I'm almost certain that the algorithms are to blame.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If youtube "Algorithm" is optimizing for watchtime then the most optimal solution is to make people addicted to youtube.

The most scary thing I think is to optimize the reward is not to recommend a good video but to reprogram a human to watch as much as possible

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At this point I would set up a new account for her - I’ve found Youtube’s algorithm to be very… persistent.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unfortunately, it's linked to the account she uses for her job.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

You can make "brand accounts" on YouTube that are a completely different profile from the default account. She probably won't notice if you make one and switch her to it.

You'll probably want to spend some time using it for yourself secretly to curate the kind of non-radical content she'll want to see, and also set an identical profile picture on it so she doesn't notice. I would spend at least a week "breaking it in."

But once you've done that, you can probably switch to the brand account without logging her out of her Google account.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love how we now have to monitor the content the generation that told us "Don't believe everything you see on the internet." watches like we would for children.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

We can thank all that tetraethyllead gas that was pumping lead into the air from the 20s to the 70s. Everyone got a nice healthy dose of lead while they were young. Made 'em stupid.

OP's mom breathed nearly 20 years worth of polluted lead air straight from birth, and OP's grandmother had been breathing it for 33 years up until OP's mom was born. Probably not great for early development.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

She’s going to seek this stuff out and the algorithm will keep feeding her. This isn’t just a YouTube problem, this is also a mom problem.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

I just want to share my sympathies on how hard it must be when she goes and listens to those assholes on YouTube and believes them but won't accept her family's help telling her what bullshit all that is.

I hope you get her out of that zone op.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If she has no account maybe try to disable youtube from setting cookies. So shell start over every time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

She probably uses the TV app and doesn't watch it on a PC

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (10 children)

the damage that corporate social media has inflicted on our social fabric and political discourse is beyond anything we could have imagined.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agreed, Ted Kaczynski was right about technology evidently.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

In addition to everything everyone here said I want to add this; don't underestimate the value in adding new benin topics to her feel. Does she like cooking, gardening, diy, art content? Find a playlist from a creator and let it auto play. The algorithm will pick it up and start to recommend that creator and others like it. You just need to "confuse" the algorithm so it starts to cater to different interests. I wish there was a way to block or mute entire subjects on their. We need to protect our parents from this mess.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the google account privacy settings you can delete the watch and search history. You can also delete a service such as YouTube from the account, without deleting the account itself. This might help starting afresh.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I was so weirded out when I found out that you can hear ALL of your "hey Google" recordings in these settings.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I curate my feed pretty often so I might be able to help.

The first, and easiest, thing to do is to tell Youtube you aren't interested in their recommendations. If you hover over the name of a video then three little dots will appear on the right side. Clicking them opens a menu that contains, among many, two options: Not Interested and Don't Recommend Channel. Don't Recommend Channel doesn't actually remove the channel from recommendations but it will discourage the algorithm from recommending it as often. Not Interested will also inform the algorithm that you're not interested, I think it discourages the entire topic but it's not clear to me.

You can also unsubscribe from channels that you don't want to see as often. Youtube will recommend you things that were watched by other people who are also subscribed to the same channels you're subscribed to. So if you subscribe to a channel that attracts viewers with unsavory video tastes then videos that are often watched by those viewers will get recommended to you. Unsubscribing will also reduce how often you get recommended videos by that content creator.

Finally, you should watch videos you want to watch. If you see something that you like then watch it! Give it a like and a comment and otherwise interact with the content. Youtube knows when you see a video and then go to the Channel's page and browse all their videos. They track that stuff. If you do things that Youtube likes then they will give you more videos like that because that's how Youtube monetizes you, the user.

To de-radicalize your mom's feed I would try to

  1. Watch videos that you like on her feed. This introduces them to the algorithm.
  2. Use Not Interested and Don't Recommend Channel to slowly phase out the old content.
  3. Unsubscribe to some channels she doesn't watch a lot of so she won't notice.
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can confirm that this works quite well. I use these tactics all the time on my parents' feed to keep them from watching too many "crap" news, pardon my french. There's a very notorious news channel in our country that insists on feeding bad (and only the bad) news - I often remove their channel from the suggested feed play videos of funny fails/wins, cute cats, daily dose of internet and other happy nonesense.

Give us an update sometime @[email protected] , hope all goes well with your mom.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Great advice in here. Now, how do I de-radicalize my mom? :(

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Could also help to deactivate the personalized advertising functionality in the Google/YouTube settings (basically wipe currently stored preference, the forbid YouTube from making suggestions based on your interests). This will keep her feed fairly generic (and bad, oh boy) so that she would have to actively search for or subscribe to these videos.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Switch her to FreeTube on desktop. Can still subscribe to keep a list of channels she likes, but won't get the YouTube algorithm recommendations on the home page.

For mobile something like newpipe for the same algorithm removed experience.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I had to log into my 84-year-old grandmother's YouTube account and unsubscribe from a bunch of stuff, "Not interested" on a bunch of stuff, subscribed to more mainstream news sources... But it only works for a couple months.

The problem is the algorithm that values viewing time over anything else.

Watch a news clip from a real news source and then it recommends Fox News. Watch Fox News and then it recommends PragerU. Watch PragerU and then it recommends The Daily Wire. Watch that and then it recommends Steven Crowder. A couple years ago it would go even stupider than Crowder, she'd start getting those videos where it's computer voice talking over stock footage about Hillary Clinton being arrested for being a demonic pedophile. Luckily most of those channels are banned at this point or at least the algorithm doesn't recommend them.

I've thought about putting her into restricted mode, but I think that would be too obvious that I'm manipulating the strings in the background.

Then I thought she's 84, she's going to be dead in a few years, she doesn't vote, does it really matter that she's concerned about trans people trying to cut off little boy's penises or thinks that Obama is wearing ankle monitor because he was arrested by the Trump administration or that aliens are visiting the Earth because she heard it on Joe Rogan?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Here is what you can do: make a bet with her on things that she think is going to happen in a certain timeframe, tell her if she's right, then it should be easy money. I don't like gambling, I just find it easier to convince people they might be wrong when they have to put something at stake.

A lot of these crazy YouTube cult channels have gotten fairly insidious, because they will at first lure you in with cooking, travel, and credit card tips, then they will direct you to their affiliated Qanon style channels. You have to watch out for those too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

they will at first lure you in with cooking, travel, and credit card tips

Holy crap. I had no idea. We've heard of a slippery slope, but this is a slippery sheer vertical cliff.
Like that toxic meathead rogan luring the curious in with DMT stories and the like, and this sounds like that particular spore has burst and spread.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Rogan did not invent this, this is the modern version of Scientology's free e-meter reading, and historical cults have always done similar things for recruitment. While you shouldn't be paranoid and suspicious of everyone, but you should know that these things exists and watch out for them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

this is the modern version of Scientology’s free e-meter reading

I actually have a fun story about that. They once had a booth on my college campus so just for fun I let them hook up their e-meter to me. I was extremely dubious that this device did what it claimed, but just for fun to mess with it I tried as hard as I can to think calm and relaxing thoughts. To my amazement, the needle actually went down to the "not stressed" end, so I've gone from thinking that the e-meter is almost certainly bunk to thinking that it is merely very probably bunk.

That isn't the funny part, though. The funny part was that the person administering the test got really concerned and said that the device wasn't working properly and had me take the test again. I did so, and once again the needle went down to the "not stressed" end. The person administering the test then apologized profusely that the device was clearly not working and said that they nonetheless recommended that I take their classes to deal with the stress in my life. So the whole experience was absolutely hilarious, although at the same time incredibly sad because I strongly suspect that the people at the booth weren't saying these things in order to deceive me but because they were genuinely true believers who were incapable of seeing the plain truth even when it stared them in the face.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

it's a skin galvanometer. It measures sweating directly based on the fact that sweat is electrically conductive, then interprets more sweat as more stress. this is a fallacy as the fact that stressed people tend to sweat does NOT imply that sweaty people tend to be stressed. this works to the advantage of scientologists because genuinely stressed people will measure high, but so will a lot of unstressed people or people who are only stressed by the fact that they suddenly find themselves in an experiment. False positives and true positives are much more common than true or false negatives, and also much more profitable for scientologists. When you successfully beat the test, the person administering it insisted you go again because it's kinda rigged and they assumed that a second reading would come back with the needle pointing strongly toward "give us a bunch of money".

this is the central fallacy behind lie detectors as well, as they measure skin galvanic response, heart rate, and other things that are correlated with stress but can have myriad other causes, then they assume that people are stressed when they lie, then they take a flying leap to the conclusion that anyone displaying symptoms of stress must be lying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodermal_activity

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

then interprets more sweat as more stress. this is a fallacy as the fact that stressed people tend to sweat does NOT imply that sweaty people tend to be stressed

It's close enough to convince people. If there were no correlation between sweatiness and stress, the E-meter wouldn't be a convincing recruiting tool. If it always just went to "stressed" no matter who used it or how, it wouldn't be as convincing either. The fact that sweatiness and stress are somewhat correlated means that it can be used to bring people into the cult.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

it took a total of one hour of youtube autoplay for me to go from "here's how to can your garden veggies at home" to "the (((globalists))) want to outbreed white people and force them into extinction"

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I too faced this dilemma. So I uninstalled every ad blocker and made it very tedious videos. It kinda helped.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Delete her youtube history entirely. Rebuild the search algo from scratch.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Sorry to hear about you mom and good on you for trying to steer her away from the crazy.

You can retrain YT's recommendations by going through the suggested videos, and clicking the '...' menu on each bad one to show this menu:

(no slight against Stan, he's just what popped up)

click the Don't recommend channel or Not interested buttons. Do this as many times as you can. You might also want to try subscribing/watching a bunch of wholesome ones that your mum might be interested in (hobbies, crafts, travel, history, etc) to push the recommendations in a direction that will meet her interests.

Edit: mention subscribing to interesting, good videos, not just watching.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I think it's sad how so many of the comments are sharing strategies about how to game the Youtube algorithm, instead of suggesting ways to avoid interacting with the algorithm at all, and learning to curate content on your own.

The algorithm doesn't actually care that it's promoting right-wing or crazy conspiracy content, it promotes whatever that keeps people's eyeballs on Youtube. The fact is that this will always be the most enraging content. Using "not interested" and "block this channel" buttons doesn't make the algorithm stop trying to advertise this content, you're teaching it to improve its strategy to manipulate you!

The long-term strategy is to get people away from engagement algorithms. Introduce OP's mother to a patched Youtube client that blocks ads and algorithmic feeds (Revanced has this). "Youtube with no ads!" is an easy way to convince non-technical people. Help her subscribe to safe channels and monitor what she watches.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

block youtube/facebook/and any social media . though dns .with pihole for the time being . and in the meantime try to reset her youtube(or delete and create new one -if she doesnt use gmail)

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