this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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Simple Truth (lemmy.ml)
submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 82 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Sigh I hate getting into it on social media, but this is just blatantly untrue.

Hamas has shown just how brutal they are willing to be the past few days and they explicitly have in their charter the destruction of Israel. Hamas given the chance would absolutely ethically cleanse all of the Levant of Jews. The PLO has a martyr fund for dying while killing Israelis. Israel not fighting would absolutely lead to complete destruction.

On the other hand, if Israel wanted to, it could completely wipe out any and all Palestinian areas. Palestine has no real air force, navy, or artillery and wouldn't be able to stop them. The only reason Israel hasn't done so is they have decided not to.

This isn't commentary on the entire conflict or the history or who is right/wrong. I'm just pointing out that this is factually incorrect.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Correct, the situation is much more nuanced than a simple sign could say. Both sides have rights and very wrongs about them. The only thing that should really be on signs should be "both sides should stop the violence and talk it through", but we all know about how well that would go. Still, star trek taught me that should be the goal.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Great point! Have you seen the documentary Star Wars btw? They have some interesting counterpoints on the use of violence against one's oppressors in the interest of obtaining freedom from said oppressors.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

“both sides should stop the violence and talk it through”

Hard to have a sit-down talk when one side (Palestine) outright says their goal is to kill all Jews and Christians.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

sigh why do these oppressed people hate their oppressors so much? Why do they have to fight for their freedom instead of just being nice?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

yeah its sorta the reverse given hamas vs israel official stance on each others existence.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's true for both sides as they both can't tolerate one another.

I see no possible solution without a third power establishing a wide ass DMZ between the two and make sure the zone fucks over both equally. Ideally they'll stop hating each other and focus on the DMZ being ass. Might give us relative peace for like a decade or two.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Those territories are so small that a dmz might just be the entire area....

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Exactly, surely both will hate it. Classic parenting, if you can't play nice no one can have it, puts toy on shelf. The really expensive part is building the infrastructure needed on the little space left to house all the people displaced. But hey work for a shit ton of people

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Incorrect. This statement is only true if Israel had started the war. Hamas started the War. Israel has to defend itself otherwise Hamas has already shown it will kill citizens of Israel. Hamas has gone as far as indoctrination of kids. You want to know who is in the right? The Palestinian National Authority. No one else

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hamas didn’t exist at the start of the conflict actually. They formed in response to and with funding from Israel in the 80s and 90s.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I am referring to what started on the 7th.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And I think restricting context and acting like anything started recently is an inaccurate way to frame what’s going on. This conflict has been going on far longer than a week. Wars don’t just pop up out of nowhere, they are based on context from before the war.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes but then you get to honor of deciding who is right and who is wrong as well. No one has to right to tell someone which is the case.

Also this is a different level than what has been happening for at least a decade.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Cutting context does allow one to make easy value judgements and frame them to support their preexisting position, that’s true.

It’s a different level, yet part of the same story. And the only way this is actually a different level is by only looking at Israeli casualties (another way restricting context can twist one’s understanding). Palestinians have been killed by Israeli military at a much higher rate for decades.

18 Palestinian journalists have been killed since 2001, all wearing identifying press gear. Russia did this as well in Ukraine and got lambasted for it yet I rarely hear about how Israel killed journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh. Because people love to cut context like this out of their worldview.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I am cutting context that is irrelevant to my point. My point is both sides are commiting war crimes. I don't need to add anything because most people already agree Israel is not in the right. I only need to say how Hamas is in the wrong as well. Which judging by the upvote and down votes I have on the initial comment shows I have said something that makes sense

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

They’ve been in the wrong for over 20 years. Celebrating getting back pats for stating the obvious isn’t that useful. Another area where context vastly improves the quality of a discussion.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Hamas has gone as far as indoctrination of kids

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Hamas has gone as far as indoctrination of kids.

As well as the Israelis, just ask any of them what they think about the Palestinian people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Hamas has gone as far as indoctrination of kids

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Just fucking leave each other be, go fight it out in CSGO or something. Wars are fucking stupid and pointless.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Rocket League bo5 and I’m in

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The best way to end war is to put the people who declare war on the front lines.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Boxing Match

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Very true, the creation of israel has been catastrophic for Palestinians. The British and Theodore Herzl should be blamed for this mess.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Glad I'm not a strawman. This would have fucking wrecked me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

From the river to the sea!!!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

How is this getting downvoted? Regardless what your opinion on the matter is, this is objectively true. Israeli forces and government have been pushing into Palestine more and more, forcibly removed Palestine people from their homes and settling people there. So, Palestine literally would not exist in a few more years.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago

I would say it's valid to dislike this as an oversimplification. It's a super complex series of unintended and intended consequences, bad ideologies, and terrible behavior generally.

They say war is a failure of imagination, and it has been increasingly hard for either of the belligerents to imagine peace.

I think the only humane view we can take as bystanders is to support asylum seekers as much as possible and condemn war crimes no matter who does them. Most people are just caught up in the gears of history. Nobody deserves this.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

I downvoted it because it’s dumb.

It may be “simple” for today, but it’s possible that the reverse can be true in a few years; it already was true in the past.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

Destruction of Israel is in Hamas' charter. This meme is beyond stupid.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

It's downvoted because it's objectively false. Israel has been attacked since day on in attempt to remove it from the map. If they were to stop fighting they wouldn't exist. If it weren't for Palestine constantly fighting, there wouldn't even be a wall around Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Very disturbing that more than a few people are dumb enough to believe this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Simply Bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Why would you not censor the face if you change the literal content of the sign?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

And in the background is a really weirdly edited banner too.