that's what happens when you tell voters to fuck off when they suggest ways in which you can win their vote. hope it was worth it!
We're in such a wonderful position: Kamala does nothing about Israel like she's paid to do and Palestinians die.
Trump wins and not only does nothing about Palestine, but encourages Bibi to go harder, more Palestinians die annnnd we get to enjoy the beginning of a fascist dictatorship!
Notice how Stein isn't even mentioned in the above? You can claim it's about putting pressure on Kamala all you like, but this is the literal election. When she loses because of this "pressure" (that isn't pressure, it's literally not voting for her at all) what's the outcome? It sure as hell has nothing to do with Stein being anywhere.
We've been having this argument about the green party for fucking decades and what progress/policies have they "forced" the Democrats to adopt?
I think aside from the obvious genocide, what really fucking pisses me off about Democrats and this topic is that "we" can sooooo easily say "handguns for self defense ok! Shotguns for self defense ok! Rifles for self defense ok (depends on magazine size and rate of fire) bombs? No! Tanks? God no!" But when it comes to Isreal they suddenly completely lose the capacity for nuance... Bombs = self defense? Are you fucking joking?
So I see you're concerned about the mathematical flaws of First past the post voting and the spoiler effect that comes along with it.
Did you know that alternative electoral systems exist? Ones where there isn't a spoiler effect even. I feel like most democrats, like yourself, understand these faults quite well. It is after all, the entire subject of your comment.
So why are you mad about people who want to vote outside the two party system? Shouldn't your anger be better directed at the two legacy poltical parties that protect this flawed voting system?
We all understand that republicans like First Past The Post voting. They are moving to protect FPTP voting in states they control. However, democrats say they support democracy. So can you tell me why they continue to use FPTP voting in the majority of states they control?
It's not like this is a new issue. Its not like the democratic party just found out about the spoiler effect that comes with First Past The Post voting. Democrats have been quick to point out the flaws of our voting system longer then I've been alive.
Again, if the democrats are so informed of the flaws of the voting system, why does it persist in the vast majority of blue states? Who is preventing this reform? It's not the republicans... they aren't in power in these states. In a two party system, that would leave only one political party responsible for this spoiler effect.
The democrats.
They have sat on their hands for countless decades, understanding the problem yet doing nothing to resolve the issue.
So you see, you should be mad at the democratic party for putting their party over the needs of the people. Not the people who want to vote a certain way.
It's unreasonable to blame those unrepresented in government for what is. This is what we voted for... again... and again... and again. Over and over. This is the result.
So why does this only show Republican states as actually banning it? Yeah I'm with you on Democrats slow walking this issue, but Republicans are actively banning it. Until that changes we're stuck with only those two options. Corpo Dems or corpo-fascist Republicans...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States
I am in Massachusetts. RCV was a ballot question. It lost. That means the voters didn't want it. Overall, RCV is pushed by multiple members of the democratic party. So this idea that democrats don't want it as some sort of secret party policy is wild.
Now, is it fucking dumb we didn't vote RCV in MA? Absolutely. Most voters are actually fucking morons.
You can be mad at both. Those in power should be changing the system to make it better and more fair, but they are not. That deserves anger. But while we are stuck with the existing system, and while the results of the system have serious consequences, then refusing to participate (and voting 3rd party in such a system is refusing to participate) means allowing the serious consequences to occur, and therefore also deserves anger.
It's almost exactly the classic trolley problem. Voting democrat means pulling the lever: you cause some harm, but far less harm than if the trolley had not been diverted. Voting 3rd party is the equivalent to not pulling the lever, allowing much greater harm while feeling morally "clean" for not having caused it yourself.
Liberals downvoting this would rather plug their ears and cover their eyes instead of confronting their issues and calling on Kamala to sanction Israel.
every thread from now until December
Don't worry everyone, just one more damage control vote and things will all be fixed. The democrats pinky swears. /$
be for genocide
why won't they vote for me
:stick-in-bike:
Those dastardly russians keep putting sticks in the spokes of my bikes. They even make it look like I'm the one doing it!
I mean that's what happens when Harris is the vice president of the administration currently carrying out genocide in Gaza. Harris also repeated misinformation about Hamas members/ Palestinian men sexually assaulting Israelis during October 7 during the last presidential debate. How are Muslim voters supposed to trust someone like that? Someone that repeats racist and Islamophobic lies about them and their Muslim brothers and sisters in Gaza. Someone actively part of a genocidal administration. Of course Muslims do not want to vote for Harris, and the reasons are very obvious.
I worry that, if Harris loses because Muslim voters don't vote for her, liberals will side with Trump when he does another Muslim ban.
Or something worse this time.
liberals will side with Trump when he does another Muslim ban.
Based on how quickly liberals threw DREAMers under the bus when it started being necessary to outflank Republicans to their right on immigration? This is an inevitability. They were going to do this even if they won, based on the way Hillary Clinton won by three million but Black men still had to hear the most about it from the daughters of Emmett Till's false-accuser.
EDIT: You can see exactly what I'm talking about right here being directly weaponized against actually-principled socialists and communists in this very fucking thread. Stay classy, sh.itsfulla.nazis!
Western supremacy and defense of colonialism is the cornerstone of liberalism, so they will, just like all the liberals did during the US war on Iraq, vietnam, and every other war.
Your fear is correct, I've seen liberal Nazis salivating about it on reddit. They really hate Muslims.
Nothing to be done about that though. They were going yo turn on Muslims anyway. There can never be safety in collaborating with Nazis
She isn't the only anti-zionist candidate, but she is a good option
Sadly, the democrat party keeps shredding PSL off state ballots, otherwise I'd be voting La Riva. Now I'm weighing whether it's even worth it to go to the ballot spot, or if I'd get more done just working on my coursework that day.
I'm writing PSL in regardless, even if they can't win the state fight against their lawyers. Fuck the "Democrat party" thinking they can bully me into voting for their genocidal asses by sending out dark-money superPAC lawyer squads to directly kill democracy. They're scared. It just shows how much of a paper tiger they are. They should be forced to change their name, this ain't even bourgeois 'democracy' this is bullshit.
Everyone should vote third party (ideally PSL, and join them, but Greens in a strong state for it could prove savvy as well) and force a political reorientation if the democrat wing ever want power again. Since the democrats are proven incapable of doing anything but flying to the right (in some cases even further than Republicans, like on immigration), stifling/brow-beating dissenters and sending militarized pigs to crush protestors; workers have been and will continue jumping ship from their genocidal-ass Cheney-Reagan-ass party. And if we throw enough numbers and support behind third parties and especially socialists like the PSL, and reliably rob them of the margins they rely on to keep this charade of death going, they will be forced from ground-up to abandon their duopoly and reorient if they don't want their liberal democracy to collapse and a whole lot more people to be radicalized into revolutionary politics. And even if they do bring about this reorientation, they'll have to reorient and reconstitute in a chaotic political retreat from a rising left (which in of itself can only help the victims of imperialism) because they've grown so complacent they forgot how to play politics.
With visibly boosting third party numbers alongside other on-the-ground-work the PSL does continuing to pick up disillusioned workers from their base and the huge 35-50% section that doesn't even vote because of how disaffected working people are by this 'fascist-and-vampire' show, the ruling class is going to have to realize they need float one of these kinds of concessionary reformist "labor" parties to try to capture all the working class people (who never held illusions about the Republicans either) being funneled to true left-wing and revolutionary parties. And that would sunder the democrats in two, with half joining the republicans (that they've all-but-done-already), and half flooding into that reformist labor party which, with sufficient agitation, would push the reformists' own "left wing" into revolutionary disaffection due to it becoming "democrat-ized" by the same people they were trying to get away from. A sufficiently-supported PSL being in the midst of this would only benefit the socialist movement.
And that's the best option for the imperialist ruling class to try to stay ahead of the rising independent left parties like the PSL, is breaking apart their own duopoly-of-exploiters under pressure of us throwing our weight behind rupturing these already bursting-at-the-seams contradictions. It isn't about "winning" like the liberals try to hand-wring about
bourgeois democracy is a farce and always has been. It's about breaking their entrenched structures apart with a hammer and scattering its pieces with a sickle and make them show they still know how to play politics. And we can all tell they don't. They have been showing us every day how inept and scared they are.