this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
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True there are a lot of stupid people out there but if I were to say something horrifically racist in pretty much any company I can be fairly confident I would be told exactly where to shove it though
It's so cool how you solved racism in your head just now.
That's definitely not universal. I personally have heard people say racist, transphobic, etc. stuff without anyone shunning them because they were co-workers, relatives and other groups you can't shun without things getting awkward. Besides, aren't you in fact advocating for not having Nazi and pedo shit around, since the obvious analogy for being shunned IRL would be getting banned online for being a Nazi or pedo?
I am infact quite happy to have as few Nazis and pedos in my corner of the internet as possible, just think it's inevitable they're going to be somewhere with the nature of self hosted platforms like lemmy
This thread is about lemm.ee, the instance your account is on, defederating from a Nazi pedo instance. That means not having them in your corner of the internet. Why are you arguing against this?
I'm not lol just wanted to have a conversation about the topic because the "free speech except these people" viewpoint requires some objective point of reference for what's acceptable.
It's fairly obvious to 99% of people when it's things like Nazis and pedos but it's not always as clearcut with more controversial topics
Lemmy instances having their own rules and defederating from those they don't like seems like the best solution provided there are enough of them that users can jump ship if they don't like the way they're run
Okay o' wise liberal of the lake. What are these "controversial topics"?
Please enlighten us and get to the fucking point.
Furries, lot of people don't like them but also don't think they should be globally silenced unless they are actual zoophiles
People using words other people don't like that aren't necessarily used in a hateful way, some people don't want to see that some don't care.
Was on a gmod server before that had a total free speech rule where people would say horrendous shit to be edgy but one day they banned one slur for one group of people specifically which felt kinda weird
Hexbears. A lot of people call for you guys to get defederated, but have seen a few hexbears be genuinely nice and helpful. I'm sure you can see my point with that one
Such as?
Furries, lot of people don't like them but also don't think they should be globally silenced unless they are actual zoophiles
People using words other people don't like that aren't necessarily used in a hateful way, some people don't want to see that some don't care.
Was on a gmod server before that had a total free speech rule where people would say horrendous shit to be edgy but one day they banned one slur for one group of people specifically which felt kinda weird
Hexbears. A lot of people call for you guys to get defederated, but have seen a few hexbears be genuinely nice and helpful. I'm sure you can see my point with that one
Pedophilia and Nazi shit are not acceptable. How fucking hard is that to understand?
Quit JAQing off and answer my questions motherfucker.
Human welfare as decided by the humans in question. If we agree that we would overall benefit from Nazis being cast out, then that is all that is needed to cast them out.
The Nazis can vote in their favor, be outvoted, and then be treated mercilessly by the majority if they cling to their fascism. It's really quite simple.
And if the system is one where the Nazis win such a contest, then debating about parliamentary bullshit is a waste of time because you are talking about a system where Nazis are a majority power. At that point, the system is something to oppose by whatever means necessary, not something to reform and critique like the Nazis give a shit what you think except to purge you.
it extremely doesn't. communities have standards -- they get to decide.
I'd extremely like to know what more controversial topics you have in mind
Furries, lot of people don't like them but also don't think they should be globally silenced unless they are actual zoophiles
People using words other people don't like that aren't necessarily used in a hateful way, some people don't want to see that some don't care.
Was on a gmod server before that had a total free speech rule where people would say horrendous shit to be edgy but one day they banned one slur for one group of people specifically which felt kinda weird
Hexbears. A lot of people call for you guys to get defederated, but have seen a few hexbears be genuinely nice and helpful. I'm sure you can see my point with that one
nah, slurs 100℅ deserve a ban. miss me with this shit. Im also shocked, shocked that you defend the use of slurs. I wonder why you'd use a website like that
lmao it's definitely impossible to make the case that a group of largely queer people deserve protection - I've definitely never made this case at length and vigorously on this website because it's impossible to do without uhhh checks notes
.
lmao, I and most other hexbears don't give the smallest shit if liberals defed us because we're rude. we carved out a place for ourselves and made a happy and comfortable home for 3 years without federation - we recruit offline, into orgs, not online. lemmy is a place for us to decompress and commiserate, not a means or an end.
Put it to a vote. If they vote against us, then c'est la vie. My only stipulation is that we get a chance to present our case (as our opponents also would).
Great and if they retreat further and further into Nazi/Pedo instances instead of engaging with the criticism and condemnation of their views and actions then that just curates for us a list of people that need to be excised from society at large. Online or otherwise.
This creates a list of people that should be placed in reeducation programs post-revolution. I don't see a problem with it.
Why are you so worried about Nazi and pedo shit getting silenced? I am beginning to suspect you might have an ulterior motive here.
They have always had their own platforms, using forum software and the like. They will use any free software regular people will use. They always had their own isolated corners of the internet.
So then the question is whether these people would cease to be nazis or pedophiles if only they interacted with "normal" people. Decades of that mindset have gone by and the answer is "no." They want tu be in normie spaces to convince others, they're not going to deradicalize like that. Deradicalization is hard, time consuming for volunteers, and rare, as well as rarely complete. And even if it were effective, it is unethical to demand the people they target be the ones to deradicalize them. Nobody here signed an agreement to be a nazi pedo's unpaid therapist.
Yes racism just corrects itself. That’s why there’s famously no racism happening anywhere
whoa
If this was true, racism would be eradicated. It must further be stated that, though many racists are very ignorant, ascribing racism fundamentally to "stupidity" is just as worthless as ascribing it to "evil". It is a moralizing account that cannot be usefully applied as systemic critique because it is all supposedly a matter of personal virtue.
People are racist as a strategy to prosper, first and foremost. It is not until you understand racism as a social strategy that you can fight it.
and if you kept doing it, would you be asked to leave? would your "free speech" be "violated" by exclusion from decent society? I'm struggling to see the contours of your argument, where exactly you draw the line between "censorship" and "social pressure" and how you imagine that ought to translate to online spaces?
Nah dude I just said that people should be prevented from spreading Nazi or Pedo shit and you come in here with your contrarian bullshit.
Free speech does not, and frankly should not exist.
You said something horrible in your implicit defense of Nazi and Pedo shit being allowed to be spread. Now you are getting shunned for it. How's that working out for you?
ah yes, the free market will fix it. the "marketplace of ideas."
gtfo
What Saturday morning cartoon do you live in bro?