Image transcript:
Calvin (from Calvin & Hobbes) sitting at a lemonade stand, smiling, with a sign that reads, "Trains and micromobility are inevitably the future of urban transportation, whether society wants it or not. CHANGE MY MIND."
this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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Fuck Cars
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A huge problem with public transportation is safety and usability for small children, the elderly, and people with disabilities or who are sick. All these people often can't use bikes or scooters. They have problems with having to wait standing and constantly out of order escalators and elevators.
I don't own a car and live in a place with relatively good public transportation. That's the biggest problem I see, next to how badly organised it is (at least here in Germany).
That is an organizational problem because my country next to it has all those things at just about every train stop (Switzerland).
Even in a country it depends on the state or city. In Munich and even around Tegernsee in Bavaria they have it better organised than in some places here in NRW. It's because so many different private companies are responsible.
One of the leading causes of death for children in North America is from cars. Well funded and built transit should be accessible to all in their urban areas. Stops should have sheltered waiting areas with adequate and maintained seating. Good maintanence and funding would reduce equipment failures in elevators and other equipment. Ideally we densify around this transit as well which would help to reduce travel distances for people with movement disabilties and promote walkability. 95% of the time well designed and funded transit paired with good urban density and zoning will be more accessible to those with disabilities than private vehicle ownership.
Federalism is the key impediment to a sensible transportation policy, though. Corpo stakeholders drive sprawl. Developers have legislatures captured to a degree that exceeds even the gun lobby. 50 different state governments, with thousands of local governments, with a federal government that is unable to plan beyond the next election - the US is fucked. There are way too many entry points for bad faith actors to wreck a good plan. More opportunities for direct democracy and recall could help, plus rank-choiced voting, plus dosing the water with Wellbutrin to turn off people's worry about supernatural bullshit, and we might get somewhere.
Yes, I agree fully.
Thnk you! You said line nobody says. You are hero of your city.
Elderly people use electric mobility scooters at Disney literally all the time. They're pretty great for the elderly so long as there's accessability ramps everywhere.
Escalators and elevators being out of service seems like an issue of lack of investment in public transit.
And cities can be built around public transit and micromobility while still allowing cars. Generally, you'll have better access for emergency vehicles, and you can do the same for people with disabilities.
I feel like people misunderstand my post. That it is a lack of investment is 100 % true. I want more investment and better public transport. People here seem to think I want to have cars, but that's not my point?!
A big problem with car-heavy streets is everyone’s safety when the elderly are driving on them.
It’s also shown that if people live in walkable neighborhoods, they get more exercise and can get used to movement even in old age.
I literally see the struggle of the people I talked about everyday. In a walkable city with public transportation.
Criticising aspects of public transport also doesn't mean I am against it or pro cars.
That's definitely not a problem everywhere. The buses we use in Canada are very disability friendly and we have programs to teach kids how to ride the bus alone. We have bike racks on the front of our buses too, so we can combine modes of transportation.
The biggest problem with public transit over here is lack of funding and infrastructure. The bus system is intentionally kept shitty here so that people will opt to buy cars where possible.
Here the public transit was sold to private companies by the government. It still costs a huge sum of money but they have less strict laws when it comes to accessibility. The government is very much a boot licker of the car industry here and Germany in general has a weird car culture.
"Barely functioning" is good enough for public transport, that seems to be the overall attitude, even in the general population.
People here have no trouble walking to stops and bikes / scooters are common, so the premises are there. But instead of taking the final leap and improving public transportation so that more people switch, they are currently moving backwards it seems.
Seems to be america-specific thing. Everyone I know just used buses since being kids just fine.
That's nice, not everyone lived in the city as kids and not everyone is comfortable letting their young children roam the city alone. Everyone has different lives.
That's true, but they can be driven in a car.
As well in a bus
And because it's illigal. I mean would you like to place blind in driver seat?
American here, I have a disabled family member. Cars are ultimately harder on them because they physically cannot lift themselves into a car while also stowing their 200lbs wheelchair.
A bus or train doesn't have that problem and are therefore better.
And the more walk able the area the better because it makes it far easier. I'm sure there are disabled and elderly people who have an easier time using cars. But to say in a broad sweeping generalization that it's better for all disabled and elderly people is a mistake. Cars should not be the first go to for a solution.
And kids can't even use cars. They are dependent on public transportation and the walkability in their area.
? I never said cars are better?
It's just a problem that needs to be fixed and is rarely mentioned (if at all). Especially the unreliable elevators + escalators.
Additionally, many trams and busses here have narrow stairs to enter or a huge gap to the floor. Some bus drivers refuse to help people in wheelchairs, they will just claim the bus is too full so they don't need to build the ramp. For the trams, there's no way to get in with a wheelchair.
Ironically, these were meant to have enough space for at least one wheelchair. But the entrance is not friendly, for various reasons.
I have a mild disability and often can't use the public transport because I struggle with stairs. Than I have to wait for a tram with a new model or walk around the city to a stop with no stairs.
They still build crossings like these and call it "modernized" ...
For kids the biggest problem is that in a lot of vehicles the stop isn't announced. And when the bus is (too) full they can't see the monitors or out of the windows. (That's a problem for all very short people I guess.)
You should make a complete new thread discussing these issues. Fuck Cars shouldn't be only about moving towards public transportation, but also about making sure that public transportation is good. I have a lot of trouble using buses too, so it is only sensible to bring up the issue to make sure that solutions include everyone.
It seems so odd to me that the transit doesn't have accessibility for those in scooters or wheelchairs. In nearly every city in Canada I've been to, their underfunded bus systems all have a wheelchair access door and systems to lower the bus for easier access.
A lot of the busses have it here, but not all. It also depends if you are lucky enough the bus driver is actually helping.
For the trams it's worse. To safe money they want to wait until the old trams get decommissioned, even when they are hard or impossible to use for disabled people. They also still build crossings made out of stairs, with no other way to reach the other side of the track unless you want to take a huge detour. Just because it's cheap.
Germany loves their cars more than people realise...
Maybe you could try to get people in your communities to take pictures of these difficulties and write to their politicians how it is inadequate service. Perhaps there could be retrofitting done to the existing services and new regulations made for new devlopments. It seems wrong for transit not to service people with mobility issues, they can often be the ones who can most benefit from it.
This was and is done regularly. But the government sold the public transportation sector to private companies and nothing is done.
The skybridge would be required to be made accessible in the USA, regardless of whether its public or private. There are very limited exceptions to ADA requirements - the second the private company spent money "modernizing" a station without installing accessibility aids, they'd have opened themselves up to a lawsuit to compel them to make the station accessible.
I would imagine that Germany is no different that a lot of Western European countries in thinking it is better than the US (because it IS in a lot of ways). Would "we treat the disabled worse than Americans do" effectively trigger German national ego toward change? So long as you keep the convo focused on accessibility and not universal healthcare ;)
I don't know why it would matter how it is any other country? I've only really heard that in a private conversation, like "I was in XY for vacation and they had better whatever". But never as a political argument lol
Perhaps if it's a comparison to a direct neighbour like Austria or Switzerland since they are similar and a lot of Germans move there.
Didn't expect to see that in the middle of Europe?
Dear Faust. This looks like Russia. People seem to not understand that off-street crossing is car infrastructure, not pedestrian one.
I didn't know in Europe public transit can be worse than in Russia.
Sorry, it seemed like that's what you were implying.
It seems like there is quite a bit of difference in the construction of busses/trains between our countries which was causing us to talk past each other. For reference, here is a standard bus entrance:
And trains:
I know there are some train/tram systems that aren't as good as this, and it isn't the standard, but it should be.
Yeah that's some bullshit.
Here that's not so much of a problem. All busses have voice announcements and an LED display for the next stop. I'm not quite sure about the trains though because there are basically none in my city.
That's not too hard of a problem at least, as you can run more busses on a line to deal with overcrowding.
You are destroying my fantasy that everything in Western Europe is better. But this would be extremely unlikely to have happened in the US in this day and age - the Americans With Disabilities Act ("ADA") would have required the station (be it public or private) to have reasonable accomodations for the disabled. In Florida, for example, PalmTran stations would have an elevator on either side of the tracks to get you onto the skybridge.
I think people have a somewhat narrow view on countries in Western Europe. Every country is very diverse. It makes a huge difference whether you are in Bavaria, Brandenburg or Hamburg, etc. These are all in Germany but parts of the law can be different.
I live in Nordrhein Westfalen where it is okay if there is any alternative for disabled people. For example, you could drive to another station which has an elevator and than use the bus to come back. ( ་ ⍸ ་ )
I guarantee you, you have universal healthcare, and every one of those provinces. And very little issue with mass shooting. Or a legal system that keeps a significant portion of your minority population from being able to vote
"Cars are better" @ParsnipWitch
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I have more trouble with cars in my day to day life than with the issues of public transit. I just wanted to add that public transit has to be done better. But if you dare to criticise it people lose their minds here. And pretend you are against public transit and a car fetishist. -.-
Probably because all of them can drive. Sarcasm. You just named all groups that will not get driver license. Expecially children and disabled.
Everyone have to wait. Everyone hates standing. Maybe just do proper benches, maintanance of escalators or remove steps? Well, probably Germany don't have problems with last one.