this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
-16 points (40.0% liked)
Asklemmy
43287 readers
1023 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
What labor is required for a sunset, or a clear mountain stream? What labor created the jet stream?
To harvest the ocean of fish requires labor, but to stock it did not. And a balanced ocean ecosystem has value whether or not it is utilized, as does a forest or the clear mountain stream.
you have to walk there ..
Edit: wait needs more indeep...
So you can not sell the Jetstream you can sell the Jet that uses the Jetstream , the Sailoboat that uses the Wind or you can build it yourself all of which need labour , without this labour the "Jetstream" has no value.
we talk about Base Value NOT "Superstructure" Value , thinks you can touch .. not like .. "i enjoy sunsets value" but even that requires some labour or at least the absence of other labour necessities.. , you made absent before hand by labouring.. Freetime also derives its value and existance FROM Labour.
And you've exemplified the heart of my gripe: There is more to value than economic value. I'm not talking about selling the jetstream, but about how it provides stable weather patterns to both the American Midwest and Central Europe. There is value in that.
I appreciate your base / superstructure argument but I don't understand it without further explanation. A lot of the superstructure half do seem related to production: education and art, to name just two.
yes the Superstructure.
Superstructrue is exactly this unmessurable mass that is not "konret" that doesnt have owners , can not be divided or counted etc..
Art is aexample on how it work. Like "who Produces the Art for whom" is the "Relation of Production".. The Flemish Masters painted those tha t could affort their Product the Elite .. therefore the Art from this era is filled with many many Ruler and Aristocrat Paintings , showing their Welth and Power... In the Sowjet Union the Painting where comissend by the working class (or in a working class Ideology) the Painting therefore Depict Socialist Themes etc. "Collectivism / Struggle / Classwar" ...,
and dont forget the Mirror relation <--->the other Art the "rebell" side of art is also shaped by the "Base" , even if it critizes it , it will critize its base..
Btw this "superstructure and Base" thing is the "Dialectical and Historical Materialism" .. very usefull concept to analyse the world with. Its like the "Atom of the Process" .. there is always a "Base Need" that will shape "its Superstructure" ....
Crimea is Ukrainian in western ( "Superstructure") .. but certainly not in the messurable and touchable Soil ("Base" ) .
and as Base shapes the Supersturcture --> every day that passes without Crimea beeing owned by Ukraine --> it belongs to Ukraine a little less --> until its gonna be like California and Mexico <-- --> And the Mirror relation is Ukraine know about this ! --> therefore wants to retake it (in Soil & Base) ,
Not in the "Superstructure" ,in here Ukraine owns it allready , so there is no Issue .. the Issue again .. stems as always . from the Base ... that is Russia "actually" owning it.